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Posted by: Bryce_of_Big_Sky

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Original: 10/5/2005 1:49 PM
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Wednesday, October 05, 2005

 

EDIT: deleted section 1


Roy Moore appealed to a higher law when a federal judge told him he could not acknowledge God. Those that say “he should have followed the court order”, are using the same argument that the German’s used at Nuremberg, and that is used when U.S. soldiers are court martialed for atrocities. God’s law is higher than any man. If any person says you can’t acknowledge God, that clearly a time to disobey the man and obey God.

 

Please be totally clear on the issue at hand. The issue is NOT about some stubborn radical keeping his Ten Commandments monument. The issue IS (by Roy Moore’s and the federal court’s agreement) “Can the state acknowledge God?” Psalm 2 makes it clear from a Biblical standpoint that the state MUST acknowledge God. Both the Alabama and the US constitutions guarantee the right to acknowledge God. If anything, the Federal court and William Pryor were anti-constitutional.

 

I am open to thoughts and disagreements.

 Posted 10/5/2005 1:49 PM - 1 view - 32 comments

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I think your last post was just perfect.

He shoulda nominated Roy Moore.
Posted 10/5/2005 2:16 PM by eiramami - reply

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I do understand your point about "bending the paper back," so to speak.  However, while hyperbole may be sometimes necessary, it still is hyperbole.

On the second point, I agree with your first paragraph in its entirety.  The second paragraph is where you and I would disagree.  Like it or not, the USSC is responsible for interpreting the Constitution.  Oftentimes, we all think that they have done so wrongly.  However, to follow the rule of law, we must acknowledge that their interpretation, right or wrong, is the law of the land.  IOW, Moore was perfect right as a Christian to take the stand he did.  However, his stand was not consistent with the current law of the land.  Therefore, as a Christian, he is called to suffer, though it may be unjust.  Where he and his supporters are wrong is to suppose that the law of the land justifies him.  It does not. 

Posted 10/5/2005 2:38 PM by obclhorn - reply

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obclhorn:   Given the following situation: 

A soldier is given an order by an officer to call in artillery fire on an apartment building.  The soldier knows that there are only civilians inside the building.   The soldier protests to the officer that the order is unlawful.  The officer points out that defeating the enemy is the "law of the land," and that the soldier needs to kill those civilians to scare the enemy into surrendering the village.   Does the soldier abide by the officer's interperetation, or does he refuse to obey orders? 

Posted 10/5/2005 6:00 PM by SecDef - reply

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^^(I should mention that that was a rhetorical question.  :D ) 

Bryce, if you are interested in a debate, check out my latest entry.  :D :D :D

Posted 10/5/2005 6:34 PM by SecDef - reply

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"With people mostly saying she was fine..." I guess I didn't realize many people were saying that  All the conservative opinions I've heard have been really against her. I think the only good report I've heard recently was from Focus on the Family... and my Dad said if Focus on the Family was for her, then she must be bad. Because James Dobson and Focus on the Family aren't the best conservatives around either. Anyway, I don't know what to think.

Posted 10/5/2005 7:44 PM by Girloftheshire - reply

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Oh, I just wanted to say that I still am set on what I said in my last comment. Whatever your friend was trying to say didn't change my mind in the least, but anyways...if the really hard decision came up, what the heck, i'd just run for flipping president myself. At least I'd have to 100% be sure of myself in that situation.
Posted 10/5/2005 9:36 PM by bsmegurl90 - reply

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Honestly, SecDef, I have no idea what you were driving at there.
Posted 10/5/2005 10:26 PM by obclhorn - reply

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It was in response to when you said that Moore should have followed the judge's interperetation.  (BTW, the judge refused to define religion.)
Posted 10/6/2005 5:47 AM by SecDef - reply

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If a superior court makes a ruling, he can either step aside or enforce it.  In your soldier example, the soldier can refuse to obey and step aside, or he can obey.  He can't try and take command of the unit.
Posted 10/6/2005 10:21 AM by obclhorn - reply

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He needn't take command.  All that is necessary is to refuse to obey.  Judge Moore did not take command, he simply refused to obey.  :)  

Bryce, I've replied on my site.  :)  Thanks for commenting!  :) 
Posted 10/6/2005 1:31 PM by SecDef - reply

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Would you expect the soldier in that situation to argue that he shouldn't have been removed from his unit?

Posted 10/6/2005 2:07 PM by obclhorn - reply

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Were that situation to happen in the Army, the officer would be booted, and the soldier commended, if not promoted/rewarded.  :)

Posted 10/6/2005 2:25 PM by SecDef - reply

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(Well, the officer might not be kicked out, but at least punished.)

Posted 10/6/2005 2:25 PM by SecDef - reply

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He should use that reasoning with higher ranking officers.
Posted 10/6/2005 2:26 PM by Bryce_of_Big_Sky - reply

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I have to mention that I was just listening to Roy Moore on Farah's radio show.
Posted 10/6/2005 2:38 PM by Bryce_of_Big_Sky - reply

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SecDef, you're assuming that the superiors agree with the soldier.  If they don't, the soldier gets court-martialed.
Posted 10/6/2005 3:40 PM by obclhorn - reply

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That's right.   (And you bet they would!  In the example I gave, the officer was clearly in the wrong, violating the rules and conduct of war.  Only an immoral officer corps would allow that officer to go unpunished.)   :) 
Posted 10/6/2005 3:52 PM by SecDef - reply

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The Constitution is (according to itself) the supreme law of the land. I am curious where the SC got the authority to be the law of the land? If they are the final say on everything, doesn't that empower them over the other branches and violate the separation of powers?

Posted 10/6/2005 3:54 PM by Bryce_of_Big_Sky - reply

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Let me ask you this:  If you were a police officer, and were told to go arrest Christians because they violated "separation of church and state," since they were US citizens and worshipped, would you do it?   You know that that is a TOTALLY wrong interperetation of the Constitution - which you swore to uphold as a police officer.   Would you obey that rediculous order?   Even if the entire government said that Christians couldn't be US citizens and had to be arrested?    Would you obey it then?  

I guess my bottom line is this:  There is a higher authority.  :)

Posted 10/6/2005 3:54 PM by SecDef - reply

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SecDef, I clearly agreed with that statement.  I said, "Moore was perfect right as a Christian to take the stand he did."  So, you can keep on coming up with more and more analogies, but that's not going to actually affect the disagreement.  Read the discussion again, because your last post indicates that you don't really have a grasp on what I'm saying.  Just in case I haven't been clear, I'll repeat it:  As a Christian, Moore was correct.  That does not make him legally correct.  The law was correctly applied in removing Moore from office.  He was in the wrong, according to the law.  He was in the right according to God's law.  Does that narrow the disagreement for you?

Bryce, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.  The USSC is responsible to interpret the Constitution.  Thus when a dispute over whether something complies with the Constitution arises and is brought before them, they have the final say.  This isn't the same as being the supreme law of the land.   Their jurisdiction is limited.  Not as limited as it ought to be, but still limited.  If nothing else, it is limited by the fact that it is a wholly reactive authority.

Posted 10/6/2005 5:01 PM by obclhorn - reply

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Bryce, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

No. Some may wish it to be, and claim it to be, but no matter what is said, God's Law is the supreme Law of the land and everything should be judged by it, and one of these days it will be.
Posted 10/6/2005 5:58 PM by eiramami - reply

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"He was in the wrong, according to the law.  He was in the right according to God's law."

Maybe I haven't been clear enough.   In the situation I described, the soldier would be legally correct.  :)   I believe that Judge Moore was legally right AND morally right.  He may not have carried out everything in the best manner, but that does not effect the morality and legality of his actions.  :)

BTW, Bryce, check out Ned's comments on Mier. 

http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/

Posted 10/6/2005 9:42 PM by SecDef - reply

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He wasn't legally correct.  Period.  If you find anyone who has anyone understanding of Constitutional law that says otherwise, they have an agenda.

Posted 10/6/2005 10:53 PM by obclhorn - reply

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Thanks for the link Sec. Ned is a former "insider" in the White House, for those of you who want to click on Sec's link above.

Kevin, I am not a constitutional scholar, but I don't see it giving judges quite the authority that you ascribe to them. I need to study constitutionaly law more. Maybe after that I could defend a more clearly defined understanding of the judicial system.

Posted 10/7/2005 6:57 AM by Bryce_of_Big_Sky - reply

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Anna, I agree. Our constitution is the operating manual of our government, even though God is the supreme lawgiver of the universe. That is why John Roberts is biblically unfit for being a judge. Read Psalm 2. He said he would not form opinions based on any religious beliefs, but apart from God and His law there can be no justice.
Posted 10/7/2005 7:05 AM by Bryce_of_Big_Sky - reply

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