Friday, March 07, 2008
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LaP admonished
After the trial on Charge 1 of the Louisiana Presbytery (LAP) Indictment yesterday, the Standing Judicial Commission (SJC) of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) today dismissed Charge 1 (instead of rendering a verdict of Guilty or Not Guilty) and entered an admonition on the guilty plea to Charge 2 of the LAP Indictment.
Charge 2, which resulted in the admonition, had to do with whether the LAP timely recognized probable cause that the “Federal Vision” views of Rev. Steve Wilkins, left, were out of accord with the constitutional documents of the PCA. Those constitutional documents are the Westminster Confession of Faith (which puts the Bible as primary authority) and Catechisms and, I suppose, the Book of Church Order (BCO). Charge 1 that was dismissed was the one having to do with whether LAP had followed all the required or requested procedures in examining Rev. Wilkins.For the background on this indictment, see my two prior stories:
1. LaP hardens -- a story about a meeting Feb. 9, 2008, of the Louisiana Presbytery (LaP) of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), at which its opposition to the so-called "Federal Vision" theology hardened. It was at this meeting that the LaP selected its defense team to the indictment, and entertained visitor Sam Duncan, who was then the prosecutor for the SJC and who later resigned as prosecutor.
2. Federal Vision -- a story about the January 19 meeting of the Louisiana Presbytery of the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) in Pineville, LA, devoted to the "Federal Vision" controversy. After much debate and numerous resolutions that failed a majority vote, the Presbytery adopted one that acquiesced to a SJC accusation "that some of the views of Teaching Elder Wilkins were out of conformity with the Constitution," and referred the matter to the SJC rather than holding a trial over whether some of Pastor Wilkins views were out of accord. This story also summarizes the two counts to the indictment from the SJC. It was after this meeting that Rev. Wilkins and his church withdrew from the PCA and avoided the trial that was then being discussed.
Current story continued: “An admonition is the lightest punishment they could do,” said Rev. Steve Wright, co-counsel for LAP. “They deliberated about an hour last night, and came to their conclusion this morning. The prosecution had a lot of questions for Dr. Jim Jones, and less for Troy Richards, the two witnesses for the prosecution.”
Ironically, Dr. Jones is the current stated clerk and Mr. Richards is the current moderator of Louisiana Presbytery. It was Dr. Jones’ complaint against the LAP that was part of the reason the problems came to the attention of the SJC. Saturday afterthought: the casual reader may wonder why the two elected leaders of a presbytery are the witnesses against it at a higher church court. The answer to that has to do with the fact that the higher court was considering sanctioning the LaP over actions taken when Federal Visionists and their sympathizers were in a majority in the LaP, which is no longer the case. As late as the January 19, 2008, meeting, it was not a foregone conclusion as to how the LaP would vote -- pro- or con-FV. My story on that meeting, summarized and linked above, made a very tentative, hesitant conclusion that it was hard to interpret the key vote on the guilty plea to count 2 any other way than that the bare majority had shifted. The title of my Feb. 9 story, LaP Hardens, again summarized above, indicates that those not sympathetic to FV are self-conciously in the majority now, albeit barely, and moving forward and taking actions consistent with that majority. I thought it was interesting that a commenter on the PuritanBoard yesterday, a Baptist pastor from California, asked, "What is an 'FV sympathizer'? Is it someone who agrees with FV, or someone who does not agree but doesn't think it is that big of a deal?" The comments on PB after that one reflect that this is not black and white, like a cancer, but there are varying degrees of theological purity.Rev. Wright continued, “I was very pleased with Dominic Aquila, as SJC moderator; he was very fair. There were times it was not clear what rules were in play, and he gave deference to us (on doubtful points of procedure). His leadership was superb. There were rumors of aggressive treatment or bias against LAP, and I saw none of that.”
“There were a couple guys who were very probing with the presbytery, but others who were more understanding. There was no bias against LAP,” Rev. Wright said.
“I was not entirely surprised (at the outcome), because we were able to present our case clearly. Some of them showed by their questions they were getting our point. There was a constitutional standard they thought we should have applied, and we didn’t know that at the time.
“Rev. John Allen Bankson did a really good job (as LAP counsel), especially on cross examination of (prosecution witnesses) Jones and Richards.
“The total trial was 4 – 4-1/2 hours, not including dinner. Most of the time was devoted to witnesses and cross-examination. I had planned to do the closing argument, but the prosecutor objected to me speaking for the presbytery, and the SJC sustained that objection and allowed John Allen only to speak.
“The SJC asked very good follow-up questions, which we had intended to ask on cross-examination. The moderator was very fair, and asked effective, probing questions to see what the witnesses meant.
“We are pleased there was no rush to judgment,” Rev. Wright continued.
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Comments (19)
It really sounds as if the action taken was appropriate, and the trial - such as it was - carried out fairly and with charity (the latter being of no small importance, considering Paul's words).
Perhaps now the Louisiana presbytery can enjoy a lovely stretch of peace. I hope so, at any rate!
(Thanks, dear sir, for visiting my blog. You're too kind!)
Thanks! Well, my young pastor thinks we have challenges ahead, and I'm sure we do, related to other FV sympathizers among us, but i think this issue will be easier now.
Yeah, ain't blogs wonderful?
@TheClingingVine2 - One of my blogrings is something like -- I write because it's cheaper than therapy. I'd go to the 12-step group for it if I had the time. :)
LaP's stated clerk has received the official notice of the SJC's action yesterday by email and copied it to all of us who are commissioners to the LaP. The core admonishment is as follows:
"The Presbyterian Church in America, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and for the sake of the peace, purity and unity of His Church, does hereby publicly admonish Louisiana Presbytery for its failure adequately to protect the peace, purity and unity of the Church in its investigation of and proceedings pertaining to TE Stephen Wilkins that should have raised a strong presumption of guilt that the views held and taught by TE Wilkins differed from the “standard exposition of Scripture contained in our Constitution.” (BCO 29-1)"
Just to confirm your guess, the Constitution of the PCA is found in the preface of the BCO:
III. THE CONSTITUTION DEFINED
The Constitution of the Presbyterian Church in America, which is
subject to and subordinate to the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments,
the inerrant Word Of God, consists of its doctrinal standards set forth in the
Westminster Confession of Faith, together with the Larger and Shorter
Catechisms, and the Book of Church Order, comprising the Form of
Government, the Rules of Discipline and the Directory for Worship; all as
adopted by the Church.
May God's grace be on you as you stand for the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
@Patrick Rooney - Thanks, Patrick. Sometimes I struggle here between absolute precision vs. being clear to readers outside the PCA for whom absolute precision would have no meaning because they have no idea what these documents are, and no idea what some of our terminology means.
My intent in that paragraph you corrected was mainly to say that the Bible is our primary authority. An original draft had said the Bible was our first constitutional document, but a pastor friend corrected me on that, pointing out that our constitutional documents are amendable, whereas the Bible is not.
Thanks again. Where are you from?
-Grampa D
@TheClingingVine2 - I agree "the action taken was appropriate, and the trial - such as it was - carried out fairly and with charity," from a plain reading of the official report.
The prosecutor, however, has been trying to read more into the report than I see from a plain reading, in comments over at Green Baggins. Maybe to an outsider like you, but who is insightful, it's much ado about nothing, but I think it's an abuse of authority. I realize I can sometimes get so close to a deal that I obsess about details more than most. What do you think?
-Grampa D
@TheClingingVine2 -
@Patrick Rooney -
This may be more explanation than anyone cares to hear about, but the rest of the story is that the SJC prosecutor, Rev. Dewey Roberts, has gone on Greenbaggins blog and complained that somebody was erroneously implying that LaP won the case because Count 1 got dismissed, and said that the admonition given by SJC upon LaP on its guilty plea to Count 2 applied equally to Count 1.
I tried to explain a couple times that this was not the case, and he argued with me both times, so I decided to let him have the last word and leave it alone.
But because a lot of this was confusing to a lot of readers, especially my non-Calvinistic in-laws, I will offer a further explanation. This is simplified, so hopefully someone not familiar with our governing documents can understand it.
Count 1 had to do with following procedures, whereas Count 2 had to do with reaching the right conclusion, on whether the "Federal Vision" views of Rev. Wilkins were out of accord with the PCA's Calvinistic Constitution.
What procedures? Well, if you look up the various paragraphs cited, you will find two curious things:
1. The indictment said LaP should have characterized the seriousness of Rev. Wilkins exceptions to the PCA's Calvinistic standards. Whenever an elder is ordained, he is asked whether he takes exceptions to any of the statements in our creedal documents. An example would be -- the creedal documents provide that we baptize our children as infants but we wait until they make a credible profession of faith to admit them to the Lord's Supper. A typical Federal Vision follower might say -- I take exception to waiting with the Lord's Supper, and instead feel we should be consistent with the two sacraments and give both of them to our infants.
Then it is up to the ordaining board to decide whether those exceptions to the standards are major or minor. If major, the ordination is not allowed. If minor, ordination goes forward.
The SJC said the LaP failed to categorize Rev. Wilkins' exceptions as to major or minor. The problem was -- Rev. Wilkins insisted he had no exceptions, so there was nothing to categorize. He always insisted that his Federal Vision views were consistent with our creedal statements. Now, he may have been wrong in saying that, but that's what he said.
2. The second curious thing is -- there's a long list of questions that a presbytery is supposed to ask an intern when he comes to apply for ordination in a presbytery. That list of questions is specifically only required when a candidate first applies for ordination. No-where in our Book of Church Order does it say that someone whose views have come into question after ordination should have these intern questions re-asked.
The rub occurred when the SJC (the PCA's highest court) accused the LaP (a lower court) of failing to follow those two procedures summarized above. It was not that the LaP had refused to follow them. They never had been asked to follow them, and there was nothing showing us intuitively that we should have known on our own to follow them.
So we decided at the Jan. 19 meeting to plead not guilty to that procedural part, Count 1.
The bottom line of whether Rev. Wilkins' Federal Vision views were out of accord with our creedal statements, or at least that there had been probable cause to believe they were out of accord, and that we had previously failed to so find in a timely manner, was Count 2 and we pled guilty to that.
By the time we met on Feb. 9, a possible trial of Rev. Wilkins was moot, because he had pulled out of the PCA, and we had to review our pleas and decide whether to defend ourselves at the March 6 trial in Atlanta. A motion to change our plea to guilty on Count 1 and avoid a trial failed by a tie vote. The argument was -- hey, all they will do is admonish us anyway, so why go to the trouble?
A substitute motion was offered to keep the not-guilty plea to Count 1 and defend, and that passed by one vote. The majority view was, as I've summarized above, we should not plead guilty to something we felt in good conscience, we were not guilty of. The things the SJC was saying we should have done, procedurally, in examining Rev. Wilkins, were 20-20 hindsight, and made no sense to have known to do them at the time.
This placed the SJC on the horns of a dilemma. They had 300 pages or more of documents backing up what I've summarized simply above. The most that could have been proved on the procedural count was -- you in the LaP should have understood him better at the time, you should have realized that his protests of not having any exceptions to the creedal documents were not true, so you should have gone the extra mile and found his non-exceptions to be real exceptions and categorized them as major or minor, and treated him like an intern and asked him all those intern questions all over again.
The former prosecutor had tried to get Count 1 dismissed weeks ahead of the trial, because of the horns of a dilemma I've explained above. They refused. Their own minutes and official report admit this. After the trial, they were inclined to find LaP guilty on Count 1 anyway, so they could be seen as taking a harder line against Federal Vision. But they realized this would look silly to anyone who waded through all the paragraphs cited and summarized it as simply as I have done. So instead they decided to dismiss Count 1.
All this head of steam may be helpful to understand why Prosecutor Roberts is now taking the position that, even though Count 1 was dismissed, the admonition applies to Count 1 anyway.
I understand these guys are frustrated. It took 5 or 6 years to wade through all this, and when Rev. Wilkins left, a lot of people understandably felt all dressed up and no-where to go.
But the truth is the truth. Think of a simple analogy. You get a speeding ticket based on a videotape, and the tape proves it was the car beside you passing you up, that was speeding, and not you. You send the tape to the judge and ask him to dismiss the case, to avoid the trouble of coming to trial. He agrees, and dismisses the case. Then he realizes you have a second ticket in his court that you're guilty of, and you plead guilty. He decides to fine you on both cases, and you say, no, you'll pay the fine you're gulty on, but not the one on the dismissed case.
HaigLaw, I still haven't posted on this. (Still trying to decide what to say in light of the spin that's going on elsewhere.) But your analogy in that last comment is spot on: how can an admonition apply to a charge that has been dismissed? He makes it sounds as if dismissing the charge is "better" from the prosecution's standpoint than a not-guilty verdict.
Now I'm no attorney and I'm no judge, but it was explained to me this way: a not guilty verdict means the charge was valid, but there was not enough evidence to convict. A dismissal means the charge was not valid to start with. Correct?
@RevJATB - Hey, Rev, thx for replying:
"Now I'm no attorney and I'm no judge, but ..."
Well, I happen to be both, but ...
Not guilty is what happens when the prosecution goes forward with a weak case and loses.
Dismissal is when the prosecution knows he's gonna lose and decides not to risk it.
Either that, or the prosecutor has a weak case and offers the defendant a very slight punishment, to plead guilty and get it over with, without risking a possibly-more-serious punishment from a trial.
My favorite story about a guilty plea that should never have happened was a dad who was charged with assault for spanking his underage son for having sex. The son called welfare. The dad was arrested and spent a night or two in jail, and was at risk for losing his job if he had to take more time off for the court proceedings. I was appointed to represent him. I said -- you're not guilty, so you should not plead guilty.
He said -- you're a white man, you don't understand how poor people live.
The prosecutor offered a punishment of time already served in return for a guilty plea, which was very light for assault of a child. The judge smelled a fish, and demanded to know why such a sweet deal had been offered.
It was my last chance for justice in the case, so I blurted out -- Judge, I'll tell you why, the state has no case, this man caught his son having sex, and whupped him good, like any good dad should have.
The judge said -- I reject the guilty plea, set it for trial.
The state caved and dismissed. Like I said -- dismissal is what a prosecutor does when he doesn't have a case.
Now lemme tell you another story, since you like stories about sex. I read your blog. :)
There was a powerful national leader who was a Godly man for the most part, but he rested on his laurels and took too much leisure time, and noticed a pretty lady bathing on a roof top. So he fooled around with her, and she got in a family way. The king urged all able-bodied men to support the troops, including the lady's husband, and the husband was sent where there was no hum-vee and no body armor, and he got killed. The king thought he was a master at cover-up, but there was a faithful preacher around who knew the score. The preacher showed up and told a story about two shepherds, one rich and one poor. The rich shepherd stole the poor shepherd's only lamb. The king was irate and ordered the rich shepherd killed. The preacher said, "Thou art the man!"
If I could, I'd tell my father-assaults-son story to the prosecutor and then say -- thou art the man.
But he probably does not read my blog.
@TheClingingVine2 -
@RevJATB -
@Patrick Rooney -
I don't know whether y'all are following the discussion on Greenbaggins or not, but the prosecutor has accused me of impugning his motives and disparaging him and questioning his heart. I quickly apologized for any appearance of such.
Instead of accepting my apology, he came back for another round of insisting his view was correct about the dismissal of Count 1 to the SJC indictment of the LaP.
Notice I am not responding. Let him have the last word. This is not about him. This is about people having a clearer understanding of what has happened in he LaP case and the PCA's important work in purging FV theology from its pastor ranks.
Friends of mine who are federal visionists may think I'm being uncharitable here. I'm getting private correspondence to that effect. No, I treasure their friendship, but I think it's heads in the sand to not say the PCA has sought to root out FV pastors from its ranks. Right or wrong, that clearly is the policy.
@HaigLaw - I thought it was a very handsome apology, BTW.
I fear I'm short on insight regarding the exchange at Greenbaggins, but do agree that a "dismissal" is generally understood to mean "oh, never mind". Once a charge has been dismissed, it's supposed to be a non-issue. It's not appropriate, ISTM, to both dismiss a charge to which someone or something had pleaded "not guilty" and say the charge merited an admonishment. That's what the trial would have intended to establish, surely? Whether or not an admonishment - or stronger penalty - was warranted?
One outcome that should arise from the whole fracas ought to be a fine-tuning of the BCO with regard to this stuff. The current wording virtually guaranteed such a contretemps would eventually occur, since it's left up to the individual's private judgment as to whether or not his doctrinal standards align correctly with the PCA's doctrinal standards. Currently there appears to be a default assumption that if someone believes he's okay, he must be okay, and it'd be rude and unchristian to disagree with him.
It's astounding, how capable we are of convincing ourselves our views are fine and dandy, even when others can easily see where we've gone off the rails. The ECUSA is in the pickle it's in today because of those who serenely insisted over the past three or four decades that their doctrinal standards weren't in conflict with their denomination's, and too many others let them get away with it. Now, of course, they're right....their views aren't in conflict any longer, are they?
It'd be a real pity if the sole result of the recent altercation in the LAP is the scooting of some of its members to the CREC. ISTM it highlighted significant weakness in the PCA's BCO as to What To Do about elders who depart from the traditional, orthodox doctrinal standards, but who are unaware they've done so.
My tuppence and worth every dime.
@TheClingingVine2 - Anne, I think you're right on the money on all points.
I'm tempted to say -- what was really going on -- but my source has forbidden me from invoking his name, so I won't. Let's just say from the official report's own admissions and the prosecutor's own admissions, they could not go there because of oversights or omissions on the commission's part in directions they gave, or failed to give, to the LaP throughout this long ordeal.
Otoh, some of the things they wish in hindsight they had had us do, don't really apply by their own terms. Which brings us to the point you made about the BCO needing amending, which is so obvious. Likely won't happen in any major way. All they ever do is tweak it minorly. I started memorizing it in 1977 and it has not changed in substance at all.
There is the curious statement in the official report, which has now been published in full by my friend Bob Mattes at Reformed Musings, that a vote at the Feb. 9 LaP meeting to change the plea on Count 1 to guilty failed by a tie vote. The SJC report actually quotes RE Al Christian's argument on Feb. 9, not by name, to the effect that all we were gonna get was an admonition, so why make a fuss? The problem is -- there is no way we could have known on Feb. 9 that an admonition was all that was at stake. The SJC had taken the unprecedented position, I'm told, of threatening to disfellowship the entire presbytery unless we made the amends they required. Unprecedented, in the sense, I'm told, that they'd never threatened that sanction before. There are churches in the LaP whose lifeblood is seen as being in the PCA, and it was very disturbing to them to have this threatened. So we didn't want to chance that. Or, let's say, a bare majority didn't want to chance that. The tie vote was either 5-5 or 6-6, I can't remember; and the next vote to retain the not-guilty plea and defend was just one more vote, 6-5 or 7-6. The SJC's official report does not cite this actual vote that moved us forward. So their emphasis is on what almost happened -- a change of plea. They obviously wanted us to plead guilty and get this over with. And I think the obvious reason is -- they realized they had problems with Count 1 and did not want to admit it. I'm told, and again can't give a source, they actually took a vote to find LaP guilty on Count 1, before wiser heads prevailed and they dismissed it. They apparently could not get a majority vote to find not guilty on Count 1, although the documents themselves clearly show we procedurally did all we were asked to do in examining Rev. Wilkins. We took all the steps. We even have a letter from the SJC at one time admitting we had done all we were asked to do. The only apparent inference as to reasons is -- the "get tough on FV" policy, which the prosecutor has denied. Or, at least, has denied that was in his heart. I have no desire to debate what was in anyone's heart. But I think it's the self-concious policy of the PCA to get tough on FV. The ad-interim committee's 9 points clearly state that. The GA voting 95% in favor shows that. How that could seriously be denied is beyond me. It's just that the pesky facts kept getting in the way of a finding of guilt on Count 1, despite this need to get tough on FV.
Your point about everybody feeling they're fine and dandy and it would be rude and unChristian to question it -- is right on, as well. Where is our doctrine of sin being practiced in everyday life? We are all sinners; why can't we admit it in more than abstract ways? Why is the prosecutor so quick to ask, "Who me?" and insist he has done nothing wrong? And attack people like me for questioning his secret heart and intentions, when there was no hint of that? Why is there the milieu that I feel the need to apologize for things I never said, in order to maintain a nice Christian discussion? I'll tell you why -- our practice of the doctrine of sin is lacking. And that's why we have doctrinal drift, even in confessional churches. If one pastor questions another pastor's orthodoxy, the first is accused of lacking Christian charity and John 13:35 is invoked. That's what happened to my pastor when the FVers were in a majority in the LaP.
The fact that the easiest outcome was the "scooting" of the FV guys into the CREC is a function of our PCA history in regard to the easy out and keep your property. That is foundational to PCA history. Many of the churches in the early days left the old southern PCUS, not over doctrinal purity, but because it was perceived as their last chance to get out of an increasingly-liberal PCUS before the denomination got a grip on the local churches' property.
So don't expect any or many full-blown heresy trials in the PCA, because the real goal is to run people off when they get out of line. No one can afford to stick around for a trial. We can wring our hands over that, but that's engrained in our history.
Well, this is more than enough for now.
Thanks, Mr Haig for explaining this.
One of my questions early on was whether our Book of Church Order provisions about interviewing candidates for ordination (21-4) applied beyond the time of initial ordination. Also, how the relatively new recording of exceptions process RAO 16(3) (5) would be applied.
It seems that the interview process should apply whenever an ordained teacher is challenged for having non-conforming views, but it's not completely clear when one reads 21-4.
It also would seem that each "exception" to our standards should be individually recorded and classified as "merely semantic", "not out of accord," or "out of accord," but that is not completely clear from RAO 16(3) (5). A reasonable interpretation there might be there only needs to be a "summary" - e.g. "the one exception taken was found to be merely semantic."
It is my understanding that Reverend Wilkins took two exceptions and had about three "quibbles." The standard to investigate, it would seem, is an objective one- requiring investigation of "quibbles" to determine whether they are exceptions, not whether the candidate thinks they are or are not exceptions.
Procedurally, I realize our system is not exactly like our court system. I was expecting a precedent to be established here that might say:
1) BCO 21-4 applies to any doctrinal examination
2) RAO 16 (3)-(5) requires that in any doctrinal examination, each exception needs to be individually recorded and categorized
3) Both sections require that other differences, qualifications of views are to be reviewed to determine if they are exceptions, such a determination needs to be recorded, and then if they are found to be exceptions, they need to individually recorded and classified.
What it seems like happened here was, the sections were not clear in requiring the above and the Presbytery was not specifically directed to do the above, so it was reasonable the way they responded, objectively. From your account and others, it seems that came to be generally understood as to what had happened.
Procedure here might have been the Judicial Commission saying on Count 1 the sections were not clear on their face, directions did not seem to require it, but to establish a case precedent detailing the above.
Short of establishing precedent on count 1, these sections perhaps can be amended for clarity in the future.
While I think we have to have a process for exceptions, they need to be very carefully reviewed and seldom granted. This is what protects us in a confessional system. It is not a perfect system, but a very good one based on biblical polity.
Thanks again for putting up with all this on our behalf. Remember, Scripture says those who are faithful in these duties are worth of double honor.
-Scott
@scott - Thanks, Scott, for that clarification and encouragement.
I would like to respond more, but am at work now, and will try to comment further later.
@RevJATB -
@TheClingingVine2 -
@scott - My thanks again to Scott for going through all this and sharing a few more examples of procedures to be followed when there are allegations that a TE has exceptions to the standards.
And my thanks to RBerman for his insightful comment on Greenbaggins today that we can all learn from the experience of LaP's trial before the SJC and do a better job next time.
I had another thought on the issue of procedural irregularities today, and I categorize this initially under the head of not seeing the forest for the trees -- or let's get the big picture here, while wading through the morass of detail.
This is based on my 40 years learning and practicing law. I do not invoke my position or titles, but merely mention my experience at the outset as an excuse if you think my points below are unduly theoretical.
There are reasons for procedures, and the most important are these two:
1. Due process fairness for the parties, and especially the accused in a criminal or quasi-criminal trial.
2. So the appellate court can accurately review what the trial court did, and figure out whether there was error.
If those two reasons are not at stake, procedural accuracy is not that important. You are never going to get a perfect trial, and if an appellate court reversed every imperfect trial, they'd be constantly reversing them and nothing would ever be settled.
Let's apply those 2 to the LaP trial before the SJC:
1. No one questions whether it was fair. My story above quotes the associate counsel for the defendant LaP profusely thanking the SJC for bending over backward and being fair.
2. Were the proceedings at the LaP level involving Rev. Wilkins clear enough for the SJC to see whether LaP committed error? Again, no question about it -- yes. So sure were they that there was probable cause to believe that Rev. Wilkins' FV views were out of accord with the PCA's Constitutional documents that they said -- either try him for these views, or refer the case to the SJC for trial, or failing one of those two choices, we are going to dissociate the PCA from LaP and you guys are going to be out of the PCA. They were totally definite about it. There was no question in their reasoning about it. There was never any question from the SJC's viewpoint about how to categorize Rev. Wilkins' views. 95% of the GA last time approved the ad-interim report saying the FV was out of accord. A trial of Rev. Wilkins at the SJC was not going to be iffy as to whether FV was consistent with the Constitution or not. The only possible outcomes were -- either Rev. Wilkins could recant his FV views, or he would be out of the PCA. From this, we can see that the procedures LaP employed in examining Rev. Wilkins, albeit not perfect, as none could be, were adequate.
@scott -
@RevJATB -
@TheClingingVine2 -
For those just tuning in, and wanting more than my few sentences summarizing what Federal Vision is, I recommend you check out "For Those Just Tuning in: What is the Federal Vision?" over at the Heidelblog by Dr. R. Scott Clark.
Wouldn't a third reason for properly defined and carried out procedures be a desire for doctrinal consistency from presbytery to presbytery? Surely the PCA would want the outcome of a trial to be the same no matter in which presbytery it was held. Few things are more destructive to justice - whether civil, criminal, or ecclesiastical - than for a decision as to whether something is right or wrong to be dependent upon who is rendering judgment.
While I'm in a "Ms. Fixit" mode, another area that needs tweaking in the PCA is to get settled once and for all whether "pink poodle" theology is acceptable in it. Years ago I'd be arguing with RC's regarding that organization's lamentable tendency to adopt peculiar, unscriptural doctrines such as the sinlessness of Mary, her bodily assumption into heaven, purgatory, and so on. Having spent a dozen adult years as a convert to the RCC I was very familiar with the defense, which is that none of those actually contradict Scripture.
I'd point out that using that rationale, the RCC would have no viable means of defense against some visionary nun who claims to have seen Christ, and that He had a pink poodle with Him during His tenure on the planet.
After all, the bible doesn't say He didn't have a pink poodle, does it? Therefore, a teaching that Christ had a pet, and that pet was a pink poodle, is not contrary to Scripture.
One of the foundational defenses of the FV'ers has been that the FV's doctrinal distinctives are not actually contrary to the WCF, and so long as they are not contrary to it, they should be permitted.
The PCA is going to find itself hip deep in pink poodles before too long if that's the way it's going to treat the WCF, and is why it's so ludicrous to think that the FV would act as some sort of bulwark against encroaching feminism, as has been frequently asserted. Pink poodle theology couldn't act as a bulwark against a class of preschoolers, for pity's sake, never mind a bunch of determined egalitarians.
Whether the Scriptures or the WCF, it's not enough for a doctrine to not contradict the standard, it should actually square with it.
As I have said it, so let it be.
@TheClingingVine2 - Score one for opposing "pink poodle" theology, which is a big issue in categorizing exceptions to the standards over FV. I think the challenge for presbyteries is to say -- wait a minute, the essence of regeneration is a heart change through being born again, and it does not happen necessarily when a child gets baptized, even though it could (John the Baptist was regenerated in the womb, so God could do it anytime). So you, Mr. FV'er, are not going beyond the standards in imputing regeneration to a child upon admission to the visible covenant upon baptism. Instead, you are going against the standards by redefining the nature of regeneration.
I'd have to disagree with your point, though, about making a third category or third reason for procedures in order to have consistency in theology among presbyteries. There is in the law the distinction between procedure and substance, between procedural law and substantive law. Procedure is, e.g., get your appeal in on time. Substantive is, e.g., whether your appeal has any legal merit. You could have consistent procedures, in the sense of requiring all the presbyteries to have their appeals in on time, and still have inconsistent results if the deciders were not keen on substantive law.
Make sense?
Yes, that makes sense. I see what you mean.
Okay, I withdraw the first point.