Amen! Hope you have a Wonderful weekend!.........In Christ's Love.....Monic

It is so important to not take your eyes off of Jesus! But it seems like we do all the time. Thank goodness for His grace and mercy. I am so thankful that He is in control even when I am not looking at Him, He is always watching me, protecting and guiding me! Thanks for the post.

your comment is so so true...thanks for reading in between the lines

Peter is one of my favorite new testament characters.- good word!

Well I'm tired of all the cold and ice , one of my staff fell down the back steps at work but is ok . Then she went home to a cold house since her power was off from the time she went to work till 9:30 pm . She fell asleep on har couch with her two little boys and when she woke up she saw she had even more Ice than the day before . A large tree was broken down and we called to check on her she said she thought it would be a big risk to get to work . she said she thought she was more sore from how she spent her night and not the fall . Please pray that she can keep their power tonight and stay warm . How are you doing these days Larry ? I hope you have a great Valentines day in the Lord Thursday and every day you live His blessing !

Let me know how things are going for you my brother !

In His hope ,

Barry

hope you like Ice cat Profile Pic

Hey Larry,

Good study...have a great weekend....Mike

@xThexGodfatherx -  I hope so. It's going to be interesting with all the teams in the West.

Just came from a site where you guys are talking about predestination. good biblical subject

Have not talked for a long time. hope all is well.

I am passing this on to Pastor Don, it is a fascinating discussion, you are right. But I also think you are not hearing the heart of what Pastor Don is saying. All you need to do is glance at any of Pastor Don's teachings and you will see that yes, he does reason with scripture. But there is more than that in this study. I have been praying about how to respond to your comments.

First, there is a difference between Spirit, Soul (which is mind will and emotions) and body, and the Bible talks about the two edged sword that separates Spirit and soul - why would it have to separate it if they were one and the same? I suspect that that is the subject of another doctrinal argument that can provoke heated discussion. Best left for later.

But Pastor Don is a Bible teacher, not a post modernist thinker, and he is not spouting Kierkegaardian philosophy. I think that you are not hearing (and I know you hate this term) the heart of his teaching, which is as Amelia says, to get the truth of the Scripture from our head to our heart.

I wish I could say that logic wins the day, but I have seen logic at it's worst. I don't know if you have ever read my testimony, but I spent many years in the occult and one of my favorite things to do as a pagan was to play the game called "bait the Christians" and out logic them. Their logical arguments never did much to convince me of the truth of Christ, but their lifestyles did. I saw people with a peace that passes understanding in facing death and other problems, I saw my best friend die trusting God in a way that did not make logical sense to me, I saw people face tremendous crises in their lives and hold onto God. I saw the fruit of a life lived according to Christ's principles and I could not argue those things away.

I spent years talking with Pastor Don and he met every one of my logical questions and debates with the word of God, and he also talked with me about my past and the hurts that I received. He did more to change my perception of God from abusive father to loving God, and it did not happen by the logical discussions but by the love that he showed through hearing my concerns and answering them with the love of God and scripture. I remember very clearly the moment I got saved and trust me it wasn't logic that did it. I had read the 10 Commandments and knew them, but in my human logic I had only broken 9, I had not broken the thou shall not murder commandment. But when I was unsaved I had an abortion and had bought into the belief of the clinic that that baby was not a baby yet, just cells in the early stage of development. At one point the Holy Spirit dropped into my mind that yes, I had broken all 10 commandments because of that abortion. I walked into Pastor Don's office broken and it was then that I was ready to receive salvation. But my logic would never have brought me to that point of realization, it took a touch from the Holy Spirit.

You mention the reasoned aruguments of Paul, I challenge you to check out the fruit of those discussions - He did not produce a lot of salvations in the synagogue, so he went to the Gentiles. He got one salvation when he spoke about the unknown god. Paul was a Levite of Levites, and loved debate and discussion which was what they did in the temple in that day. But even Jesus was harsh on the Levites and priests for they spent so many hours in discussion that they missed the heart of God. They counted their tithes to the grain of mustard, but not the heart of giving to God. They laid undue burdens on the people, did not like Jesus healing on the Sabbath, even when it meant freedom from a person who was paralized for 38 years. They had so many incredible rules and regulations that they created by debating what constituted work on the Sabbath. It was not what God had in mind with the Sabbath. We can do that with the word of God too if we are not careful. But again, that is not to say that we are not well versed in Scripture and ready to share scriptural answers to questions.

Jesus sure did not teach logical teachings - just read the Beatitudes, and remember that what God teaches sounds like foolishness to the ear. Think of things like take the lower seat to be elevated, the first will be last and the last first. You must die to self. Look at what the prophets said, some of their actions did not make sense to those around them. Imagine sending singers out in front of the army to meet the enemy. Imagine walking around Jericho seven times and then shouting as a way to bring walls down? God does not work according to our logical thinking.

Do we really want a God that we can fully understand? No, I sure don't. When I have a huge problem, I want a God who is bigger than my problem, who can give me a God idea. So often the things that God does in my life are not things I would logically choose and yet, when I obey God, things work out in ways that I never believed possible.

Pastor Don is an excellent teacher and well versed in the scripture, but what makes him a very good teacher is that he also teaches to those he is teaching at the time. One example crosses my mind. In one Bible study, Pastor Don went on and on and on about muscle building at Gold's gym as an illustration for a particular scripture - not sure which one. I have to tell you that there were very few muscle builders in the Bible study, and many were women. I was puzzled and wondered at the illustration. But at the end of that Bible study there were three men (well muscled) who came up and got saved.

I look at the fruit of Pastor Don's teaching and I find that almost weekly there is at least one salvation if not more. And not only that but those who are saved stick around and grow and change in remarkable ways. The power of the Scripture is strong in our church and the fruit of it's teaching is evident. I was casting around in my mind to think of the composition of the Bible study, and in this study there were about 30 people on a Friday lunch study, and quite a few were new and I suspect that some of the teaching was targeted to touching something in them. Perhaps go and read some of Pastor Don's other studies, for you will see that they are all scripture based.

Now regarding the leap of faith, remember Thomas and how Jesus told the disciples that blessed are those who do not see but believe - that is us. We believe by faith, not by sight. That isn't so logical. But we know that without faith it is impossible to please God, and that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.

When we hear the Word of God the seed of faith that is planted in us grows. It doesn't say that faith comes by the logical debating of the Word of God, just by hearing the Word of God. Don't forget that Jesus also told the apostles that when they stood in a court not to worry about what they would say, that the Holy Spirit would guide what they said.

And Pastor Don certainly does not shy away from questions or debate, but at some point the rubber has to hit the road and we have to make a decision. I can spend hours in debate and not ever make a decision.

I also have to tell you that I thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and questions and I eagerly await hearing what Pastor Don has to say in reply. It is when we question that we really learn a lot more, so you have provided some wonderful questions.

Have a blessed day,

Heather

Thanks for the comment!

RYC:
No, I'm planning on moving in with her boyfriend (I mean the guy she's dating, if I'm not allowed to use the word 'boyfriend').  He's got a second (available) bedroom.

But I'm still coming on the 18th.  Leaving OAK at 10:14am, getting into SLC (why??) at 1p, leaving SLC at 3p, and getting into Sky Harbor around 3:46p.

I actually don't know a great deal about Macs.  I'm dual-booting Linux and XP on an IBM-compatible, but I do know that Linux can be put on a Mac somehow or another and it's pretty common (at least, common among Linux users, but desktop Linux isn't all that common as a whole).

A very wise post

Now that I know anyone can comment, I'm back on xanga!