Monday, January 21, 2008
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Free Will
"Bruce Almighty" was playing on our tv in the kitchen and I came into the room just in time to hear this terrific little conversation:
Bruce says to God, "How do you make somebody love you without destroying free will?"
God answers, "Welcome to my world. If you figure that out, let me know."
Ok, it's only Hollywood, and I'm sure God isn't at a loss for how to make us love him, but it does show us a more complex relationship between God and man than we are used to thinking of. In this gentler view, God is wooing us, not strong-arming us. It's not simply a question of Him commanding and us obeying: He wants our love to be freely given--or at least that's how I'm reading it. So He's showing us His love for us. He's guiding and demonstrating and rescuing and convincing. He's championing the weak and lost, destroying principalities and strongholds, showing tender mercy, but he's not destroying our free will. The kind of love He wants from us takes time and generations to develop. And He's patient.
I think abusive unhealthy religion misses this about God. If God is dictatorial and irresistable, as many of us were taught, then why shouldn't religious leaders be so also? Why shouldn't they force people into perfect conformity with their standards and throw them out if they fail? If God demands perfect obedience now, why shouldn't our churches demand it as well?
But I have found that among people who's idea of God is more gentle and patient, they themselves are also gentle and patient. Maybe theology and ideology have as much to do with abusive religion as personality does.
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Comments (19)
It's unfortunate that the Biblical doctrine of predistination (OMG, the P word! And I don't mean Presbyterian!) is portrayed in such a twisted way by so many.
Once when I was a kid, I ran away from home. I disappeared for a whole day. My dad frantically scoured the neighborhood looking for me. He wasn't just looking any boy that wanted to go home with him. He was looking specifically and only for me. Lots of other kids would have been happy to come live in our house. But Dad wasn't looking for "whoever wanted to." He knew and loved me even when I was acting like a little jerk.
That is the picture I want people to see when they think of predestination. It isn't force nor any merit on our part. He knows His own and calls them to Himself.
The wonder really isn't that God shows mercy to some and justice to the rest. The wonder is that He shows mercy to anyone at all!
-Robin
j & i were talking about this last night...after reading a newspaper article about donald miller. (blue like jazz) i'm not sure how i feel about the emergent church...and that's beside the point. the article quoted some "church leaders" (i'd never heard of them) that said that mr. miller was "soft" on sins like homosexuality, etc. the funny thing is, i've read blue like jazz, and i didn't get the picture that he was soft on it...rather, that he loved people in SPITE of their sin.
so, what was the real problem that this "church leader" was having? apparently, he think that anyone who doesn't condemn a person for sinning is "soft on sin".
nope, it's called loving the sinner...all the while, hating the sin. i've seen patience & love win many more people to Christ, than hate & condemnation.
Good and interesting connection between people's view of God and the way they imitate Him.
You know ... I balked at watching this show, but finally caved in long after it was on DVD. The scene you cited was one (the female lead praying for Bruce was another) that won me over to realizing this film, in it's very secular way, did a pretty good job of depicting the challenges of God's power, His love and our free will.
One of the things I say very often is, "Christianity is a walk. God will never wave a magic wand "to make it all better."' John 8:31-32 It is so simple Jesus said 1) Do what I teach 2) As you perform My teachings you'll be a true disciple 3) Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. There are things we can know for certain, but people who have God all figured out, boxed and wrapped neatly with a bow are dangerous people. Look at every Christian system of theology, no one has it all right. It would be foolish to toss people like Calvin completely out the window, but all you have to do is look at hyper-Calvinism to see how harmful theology taken to extremes can be.
The Bible reveals the heart of man centered religion John 11:48. In this verse we are told the true reason for the Pharisee's opposition to Jesus.
"What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs. If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."
When we fear people coming in and taking away our place and our nation we have man centered, empty religion. We miss the truth and withhold from ourselves and others the freedom which comes in relating to Jesus as we walk with Him.
Blessings,
Lonnie
One who is not only shunned by church, but also by many family members! Long painful story....I need to subscribe!
The only thing that could have made that better would be if the quote was from Free Willy.
(On second thought, maybe not.)
I recently read a saying from the Hebrew Mishnah: "Everything is in the hands of God except the fear of God."
And then there's Chesterton: "Hell is an eternal monument to the dignity of human free will."
There is also an excellent question that a prominent non-calvinist sometimes poses to his debating opponents: If it was true that nobody wanted to love God unless He irresistibly predestined them to do it, what would that say about His character? What kind of person has no admirers except ones he had to force against their will?
Anyway, yes, your point is right on. I'd go even further: Often times someone's personality can be linked to a direct result of their theology or ideology. I've seen people's personalities change rather dramatically (both for good and not-so-good) when their theological views changed. At very least there's a correlation, and a shrewd person can often guess what someone believes about God from what his or her personal actions are.
(Just ramblin' tonight.)
Oh the evils of Hollywood!
Isn't it odd that a 'secular' film gives us better insight into our lives than many churches?
Good ramble, Eric.
Free Willy.
Funny.
It is ashame the amount of focus that is put on mechanics, rather than on application. Balance is soooooo missing.
ehrinn, I love this part of your comment especially: "i've seen patience & love win many more people to Christ, than hate & condemnation. "
Wow, Lonnie, that was a really insightful comment. They don't want their place to be taken away. I am sure that is it. But the cure for that kind of thinking is "Who would be first should be last."
Aura, not rambling at all. I see that correlation between personality and theology, too. But whenever I've seen it, it was the reverse relationship---I've seen controlling judgmental people drawn to strict legalism, whether it be Calvinism, or the moral legalism of Baptist churches. And I've seen nice, good-natured, loving people reject authoritarian theology just out of instinct.
And that is an excellent debating sound byte: "what kind of God has no-one who freely chooses him?" Really! I can't say that's enough to refute volumes of brilliant theology, but I'm going to let my instincts have a voice in this debate, too.
apyus, I'm sure I speak for everybody here when I say that totally I agree with you about butterflies.
RYC: Thanks Mrs. D. It come from walking with Christ.
Lonnie
Thanks.
I'm sure the personality/theology question goes both ways and becomes a chicken/egg question-- what's for sure is that where there are chicken eggs, there have been chickens!
Not sure who the chickens are in that analogy.
I have this nagging suspicion that instincts count for more than some theologians would have us believe. God couldn't have created beings that are more loving than He is!
That's right, Eric, how could he? I spent a decade trying to ignore my instincts and teach myself to like the idea of God's having forced me to love him against my will. Even though I felt that I had freely chosen Him, I tried to believe that He had overpowered me. (Of course I understood that He had put certain people in my way to help me understand Him better. ) Sharing the Gospel was tricky, too, because I tried to convince people to 'let' God make them love Him. I saw what a contradiction that was, but decided that I should hold the contradiction and call it a paradox.
Now I'm not planting my flag in any particular system anymore, but just going with what seems right and seems to honor God.
good words
ryc: You start the blogring, and I'll join up immediately!
"But I have found that among people who's idea of God is more gentle and patient, they themselves are also gentle and patient. Maybe theology and ideology have as much to do with abusive religion as personality does."
Yep i agree!