T.D. Jakes apparently didn't like my previous post. This is the closing of Jakes' article in response to CNN's previous post about how the "black church has shunned King's message":
"In the final analysis of why people attend church or why they select
this church over another one, or follow this minister over that
minister, the answer is simple;
people go to a church where they feel
comfortable, where they feel their needs are being met and where they
feel that they are getting assistance with the many issues that
confront them in these troubled times"¹ (italics mine).
Can I just say, this is why Jakes was crowned "Preacher of the Year" a few years back. The man. is. a genius. Pastors around the country scratch their head and ask, "Why can't I get 30,000 people to come hear me preach like Jakes?" You idiots! Don't you know? It's all about making people feel comfortable, meeting needs, and assisting people! Didn't you learn that from Jesus dammit!?
So for you pastors who still don't get it. Let me break it down for you and help you get your old, dying church out of the crapper and on the road to SUCCESS with these three easy steps!
1. Comfort. Tell me something, what are you sitting on right now? I can tell you what you're not sitting on. A wooden pew. That's right. Who wants to sit in a pew? No one. So the first order of business is getting these pieces of crap out of your church and replace them with something comfortable. Perhaps Lazy Boys, leather couches, and Tempur-Pedic beds for starters. Out with the old and in with the new. I promise you that if I'm curled up on a $3,000 Tempur-Pedic bed with a couple of cute girls I brought to church with me to hear the word of God, I wouldn't be in any rush to leave. Go ahead preacher, preach on.
2. Meet the need. This is where the church staff massage therapists come in. I'm always in need of a good massage. While we're lounging in our Lazy Boys, listening to the Word of God, those massage therapists can minister to us. Jesus washed feet. Why not pay someone to rub mine? What could be more biblical and christ-like? You also may notice some may be in need of a good manicure and pedicure. The church should provide this as well. (This may also help make the church more racially diverse... two birds, one stone.) And I'll need something to drink. Anything on tap?
3. Assist people. These are hard times financially. And the truth is, time is money. So you should pay people to attend your church. And not this minimum wage chump change either. The better you pay, I can promise, the bigger your ministry and church would grow. The church supposedly exists to help out... well I've got bills. I mean, I'm a bit in debt with my Lexus, the horse needs food, and I think God wants me to have a new Jetski. So church, I need assistance. You give me money and I promise I'll show up. I may even put a bumper sticker on my Lexus to show who helped me purchase it.
So silly pastors, don't you understand what it takes to be a mega-church-superstar? If you can just make me comfortable, meet my needs, and help me out... well... I'll come to your church. And by having me grace you with my presence, you too can grow your church, be successful, and may get rich in the process.
Comments (16)
that made me laugh. maybe laugh to keep from crying?
I really hope this is a joke, because I would be very sad if you were serious.
I'd be happy to join such a church...but there's a problem, which makes it absolutely impossible for me to join....let's see what was it again?...Oh Yeah! I'm a Christian.
Wow. Usually I'm with you on things, but not this one.
Small minded people usually can't see the big picture. And man, that's really sad to put down such an amazing preacher not because of something he preached, or because of all the messages you heard and he was just way off theologically but because how he accomadates 30,000 people that VOLUNTARILY COME TO CHURCH. I am pretty sure he's not at their door step with a gun making them come to church. Why can't we celebrate that 30,000 people are in one church!? Oh I know, because there's no way 30,000 people can be serious about Jesus when they're 'comfortable' PHYSICALLY. But yet they could be uncomforatable SPIRITUALLY. There are hundreds of thousands of people who aren't knocking at the church door b/c they have comfortable seats. That's just stupid. But rather, it has to be the Truth and the Word coming from that house. I guess I consider heaven as one big extravegant, maybe too guady mega-church, all under the same roof. Will you protest outside the pearly gates because the streets are made of gold and not stone?
but i shall admit you have a humerous way of expressing yourself. Kudos to that :)
i punched td jakes in the mouth once. in the final analysis, he had a busted lip.
@imagoodegg31 - Off theologically? Yes, I could go there. He's a heretic. He's believes in modalism. You can easily google his name and find plenty of sites that point to how he's a false prophet. He's a oneness pentecostal.
Secondly, what part of Jesus makes you think comfort? What part of the new testament church makes you think comfort? How can you justify comfort at the expense of people that are homeless around you? These churches are infected with a consumerism and it's sick. Small minded? No, just seeing the big picture...as in more than just america.
Thirdly, T.D. Jakes demonstrates his theology by the way he lives. His house is in the top five of largest houses in fort worth. his fence alone cost a million dollars. A million dollars to keep the poor and homeless out. For me, I consider great preachers those that embody the message of Jesus. If Dr. King was alive today, I could imagine him leading marches around his house in hopes to see this excessive empire fall.
I suppose you grade your preachers on a scale of charisma. I base my grading in regards to scripture and Jesus.
@freethinker777 - the last line of your comment makes me laugh. You sound so conservative and yet I can't help but think of how many conservative pastors you'd piss off with that statement in this context...oh irony
so THAT'S how they do it. sweet. i'll go run and tell my pastor. we'll have a full building in no time
gee golly, just what i've always wanted! a building full of whiny brats who don't know Love!
@freethinker777 - Then if he's off theologically then you should stick to that topic. But what does his home and the size of his church have anything to do with the kingodom of God? I'm sure you would say everything because homeless people are on the street and starving kids in Africa. I am sure there are starving people in his church. Poverty is everywhere and it has a hold on way to many people, yes I agree. But will him living poor on the street help change that? Have you tried researching the church to find out what their church budget is and what it's being spent on? I would like to know that info, as well. I am not here to defend Biship TD Jakes. But you can't group one mega church as the basis for all. Its like classifying all white people as rockers or all black people as ghetto. It's a false sterotype. Accusations won't stop TD Jakes, but God will make his 'empire' fall if it is not genuine. And for the record, he isn't one of my favorite teachers. I don't consider him a spiritual voice in my life. But I do respect him as a man of God. I can't regard him by his flesh or his wealth, but the fact that he is a preacher and I don't care if he was a pastor of a riggidy small church and couldn't afford socks, if he preaches the gospel I respect him along with all the other preachers out there. They may not be doctrinely sound, but I still respect them and love them. Isn't that the Christian thing to do? If we spend all our time and breathe fighting pastors and churches not only have we wasted time, but we've lost so many onlookers scratching their head wondering why in the world should they ever join such a faith.
I think we're thinking differently about comfort. From what it sounds like you're thinking comfort as in "fancy church", or "fancy teachings" correct me if I am wrong. I am thinking comfort as in safety and I don't care what you think or say there is always comfort and safety in Christ. Comfort in knowing He is my Savior. Comfort in knowing that He will never leave me or forsake me. Comfort in knowing oneday we'll be reunited. Comfort in knowing that no matter what hell I am going through He is always faithful, holy, and good. Not comfy in my walk with him because daily I must say no to my flesh when I want to cuss out the car in front of me or what not, but challenging to life a holy life. So Yes Jesus in a way came to comfort all of mankind by saying "here take my blood and free them because I love them", not so we can argue back and forth about a church building that will fade away. It's not about the building but how would you house 30,000 people? If God blessed your ministry with over 5,000 people today, how would you minister to them, how would you serve your guest who have come to hear the very Words of God? I am just curious. I'm not saying it has to be fancy but how would you handle the masses? Because I do believe there is a time where the masses will come. It won't be a trinkle of one or two or three I think people will start running to the church, crusades revivals, bible studies, where ever the Word is being taught, by the hundreds. Why? Because they found a Jesus that loves and comforts them in times of need BUT challenges them with the word that will often make one UNcomfortable in their spirit, like the Pharises. Of course Jesus indured not so comfortable situations, I think dying on the cross makes the top 5 list of pain and suffering. But I don't think He died on that cross so I can walk around beaten up by life and struggling just to make ends meet. I don't think Jesus once mentions needing anything in the natural. I do belive we are to go and help the poor, go and help the sick, go and help those who just need help even if they're not Christians. But how can we help someone when we need help ourselves? How can I feed someone when I don't have food for myself? How can I provide shelter when I don't have a home to open to them? The only thing I could provide for them would be the Word of God that He will provide, but how convicing is that if I am not living the Word of God?
I believe one of the messages of Jesus is kingdom along with other messages. Jesus was Kingdom minded and preached it throughout his time on Earth. But more than anything it was one of love.
I am not mad or pertubed but confused how so many people are rejecting this new move. Tradition has been done away with and it's a new day. Same principles, same Bible, but new ways. I go to a so called mega church, we have about 13,000 members. We started out with 3 members 13 years ago. Before we moved into our building (which we didn't do a yearly funding offering) we were sitting on top of each other with about 4 services a weekend and we had about 10,000 members at the time in a building that only sat about 600 people. When we built the building it gave people a chance to actually come to church and be in the church instead of outside on the curb because the Fire Marshalls were staring down the church just waiting. Half of the church budget goes to our outreach minsitry (which has 85 sub outreach ministries under it including single mothers, half-way homes, inner street, divorcees, widows/widowers, etc). We go and bus people from the streets in to church every Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. Our church is the only church in our area impacting our city. Really changing our city for the good. But sure our pews (yes pews not mattresses :) ) are somewhat comfortable, they're do able, but I hardley believe that we have hundreds of vistors a service coming because of our somewhat comfy pews, but the message. There is a mega church out there actually doing missions (they lead about 15 teams maybe more a year to different parts of the world to do missions, the church has hundreds of churches planted in those countries as well) and actually making an impact in this world. This isn't to pump my church up to be this spectacular thing but to show you that just because there are a lot of people in one church doesn't mean that they don't work together to change things.
Here's the thing. The big picture, in my view, is not about the money. It's not about the cars, the assets, the big mansion on a hill. The big picture is about the church uniting as one and actually making a difference in our community. I do believe it is the church's responsibility to help the community, help the poor. But Jesus didn't go giving the poor gold or money, no he gave them the momentum they needed to go and make a living for themselves (he healed the blind, the crippled). I do believe that God is trying to heal the churches needs so they can go out and heal the needs of others. How can pastors help the community where no one is in the church paying tithe? How can he get them off the streets when he's trying to find out where his next meal for his family is going to come from? It's time for the church to stop arguing over petty things such as---mega churches, and start uniting and finding out ways on how to improve our community, how to improve the standard of living for our people.
That's a strong assumption that I base my pastors on Charisma. Not at all. Not at all my friend. I actually read my bible and pray. I actually spend time with God. I left a church because the teaching was not sound. I attend a church where the Word is sound, we actually are changing our community around us, helping those in need (not just the Christians--we hold several events a year including Toys for Tots, Holiday Hope where they bus in people from the communities for the holidays and feed them, give them clothes, love on them and not in hopes to get anything from them but to give to them hope and Jesus). But I don't think it matters what a mega church does to help change the community because some people, especially those outside the building, can't get past a large building.
Despite the differences we stand on, I still love you as a brother in Christ and do believe you have a passion for changing and improving the body of Christ. I do believe you should continue that and not let anyone take that away from you. I love to hear the views an opinions of everyone because it broadens my world and I know there are bridges that can be built to help connect differences so we can all work together, not divided, to impact and change this world. Have a wonderful weekend.
@imagoodegg31 - In this instance, I don't take issue with his theology, but rather his ecclesiology. This is where we greatly differ. It seems like you want to hold up anything that preaches sound doctrine and does some form of ministry as a new testament church. I disagree. This is NOT the church. Following Jesus in community is the church. These staged events and "corporate" gatherings of the megachurches are simply providing the spiritual services for a consumer christian. Because here's the bottom line: the church that you're describing is not only unbiblical, but it's not consistent with Jesus.
There's no way you could get your hands on a detailed church budget. But what I can ask is whether Jakes should roll in a R. Royce, have a lear jet, wear thousands of dollars in jewels (that were most likely part of someone's oppression), and live in a mansion all at least partially funded by the church. This is sick.
In your entire lengthy response to my comment, you seemed to leave out the biggest component: Jesus. You ask about where will we put 5,000 people? How can we help someone if we don't have a house? How can we do anything if we're poor? The megachurch puffs up its chest and says, "We can do it!" (Part of the bogus self-help and oftentimes prosperity gospel.) Yet Jesus stands in opposition to this response. The correct response is simply "Jesus." Where will we put all those people? Jesus: stood in a boat and spoke to 5,000 people. Now lets ask what happened to those 5,000 people. They all went away. Why? Because the message was too hard. It wasn't self-help. It wasn't comfort. It was death, dying, and suffering. While you don't like that message, Jesus said you find comfort only by taking up a yoke and dying. So what does it say about churches that have 5k plus and yet God himself walked the earth and ran 5,000 people off in a day? There's something very wrong.
Or where should we put the people if we don't have money or a house? Jesus. Yeah, did he have a house? Where was his job? These are simply american knee jerk reactions that come from wanting to protected a tamed church. I find the question to be extremely disingenuous though. Have the houses, but why do we have homeless people if we have these houses. Either way, we're missing the mark.
If you define "success" by what works... then I you're in the right place. (So is Jakes and many other pastors that have been involved in extreme corruption. Hell, the mormons are of God and so is Islam if you want to base things on numbers rather than Jesus.) Because my post was very tongue in cheek, but you can guarantee that this type of church would have thousands coming. No doubt. Tickling the ears of the masses doesn't mean a thing. You can manufacture growth without any hint of Jesus. But why is it that these communities and preachers look nothing like Jesus? Sound nothing like Jesus? Jesus' ministry was one of shrinking numbers. They killed Jesus. Many are ready to crown these pastors of churches. Why? Why the stark contrast? I dare say it's because they have missed the call of Jesus and are simply playing a role in the economy of american christianity: make people feel comfortable (not a biblical calling), meet people's needs (this isn't toys for tots), and assist people (this isn't to help people get rich). But if we want to go with what works... bring out the lazy boys.
ha ha ha
youre funny!
woooooow. watch this. bill o'reilly sent one of his goons to ambush this guy and he stood up to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wvQMqSzTM&eurl=http://video.google.com/
@imagoodegg31 - just my two cents on one part:
"But will him living poor on the street help change that?"
let's say he lived on $75k a year, still a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with a small family. let's say he makes $500k a year (a very lowball estimate for someone like him and doesn't even include the church assets he basically owns). that's $425,000 to feed children in the third world. it takes $70 to feed one child for one year. that's over 6,000 children fed year after year after year and jakes still has all the essentials to live comfortably. so yes, it could have a very real impact.
just one of the many examples. let's say he switched out his rolls royce for a lexus. that'll feed a few hundred kids right there. i just hate the argument you made because it assumes he has to live on the streets. there's quite a bit of wiggle room between half a million and $100,000 (both conservative estimates).
i don't think we should expect secular millionaires to give up 90% of their income to help the poor. but i do think it speaks volumes when a preacher makes that much and won't do so.
@freethinker777 - I apologize for engaging in this conversation and leaving an entirely too long comment expressing a different view point from yours. :)
@mryoung7 - I agree. But people forget that Bishop Jakes has a seperate income from his book sales, and a movie. No matter how much anyone makes we can still do a part to help. What I meant by that part, which I guess didn't come out right, how can we help someone in the natural (food, shelter) if we don't have any of that to give to them? Yes we can give them a bible or scripture and tell them God loves them but when we walk away they'll still be hungry. I don't know much about Biship Jakes to speak against his church or him. Yes wealthy, but I don't know if he gives back or not. I do know pastors of smaller churches (I use to attend one) who make a significantly smaller amount of money than him but yet are doing nothing to serve the community. Nothing. It's a small church, probably bringing in decent money because he has a very nice large home and his interns aren't learning the bible from him but rather mowing his lawn on his estate. But he isn't getting noticed for what he really is because he's not making millions. I think this topic about what pastors should be doing with their money hits every pastor not just those who are making millions.
Oh my, this is nice. Thank you.