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Original: 8/2/2007 2:24 PM
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Thursday, August 02, 2007

BARKER CASE STUDY: MORAL NEUTRALITY & REJECTION OF GOD

 

Okay Reformed theology and apologetics time...

I still need to work on it and revise it...

BARKER CASE STUDY: MORAL NEUTRALITY & REJECTION OF GOD

            When the Christian engage in evangelism and apologetics, the Christian must not forget that the nonbeliever is not intellectually neutral towards God and Christianity nor is he morally neutral towards God either.  In fact, he is in moral and spiritual rebellion towards God.  As have been described by the apologist Cornelius Van Til, he is not a covenant keeper but a covenant breaker.[1]  This rebellion also has a direct influence in the nonbeliever’s rejection and being against Christianity.  According to the Bible, our minds have actually become hostile towards God because of our evil deeds.  The Apostle Paul described what believers were before they were in Christ when he stated in the Bible that,

 

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.” (Colossians 1:21)

 

            In light of what God has revealed in this verse, it is amazing how some Christians could assume that the nonbelievers can be neutral towards God in any fashion.  Note how the verse claim that prior to knowing Christ in the natural non-Christian state,

 

1.)    The nonbeliever is alienated from God

2.)    He/she is an enemy of God

3.)    A nonbeliever’s mind is against God

4.)    All the above claims (1-3) is so, because of the nonbeliever’s evil behavior

 

Yet there are those who insist in doing apologetics with the assumption and acceptance of the myth of the “open minded” skeptic.[2]  That is clearly unbiblical and must be pointed out to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, yet in a manner that lives up to Christian love.[3]

 

Given the above four observations concerning the non-Christian from Colossians 1:21, the purpose of this writing is to drive the point home that the nonbeliever’s inability to be morally neutral toward God (or to be more frank, his spiritual and moral rebellion) has a direct bearing and influence in what he can and can not accept about Christianity.  There is more than just the intellectual aspect that is involved.  This is so whether the nonbeliever or the witnessing believer is self-conscious of it or not.

 

To summarize it in a sentence: Just because a Christian can logically demonstrate in an intellectual way the truthfulness of Christianity, it does not necessarily follow that the nonbeliever will then accept Christianity.

     

As a case study, we can review a debate between the popular atheist Dan Barker and Christian apologist Dr. Robert A. Morey.  During the radio debate, the atheist Dan Barker stated that,

 

“If the God of the Bible exist, and I would be forced to accept it, and I would accept it rationally, I still might choose not to spend eternality with that blood thirsty tyrant” [4]

     

Note that given the hypothetical possibility that Christianity is true, Dan Barker is still in a state of rebellion against God.  To put it in his own words, for Barker, God is not someone who should be revered and respected but is labeled nonchalantly by him as a “blood thirsty tyrant” who Barker somehow have the right and moral ground to choose not to spend eternality with.

 

Barker’s rebelliousness gets more overt when he stated a few seconds later and this time calling God a ‘bully’:

 

“There is no God, but if there is a God, and He is the God of the Bible, then I would feel rationally justified, I would still be obligated not to worship, not to respect that bully…”

 

Note the rebellious attitude of Barker from the Biblical perspective, where instead of God being the ultimate final judge and man being “in the dock” so to speak, the role is reversed.  Barker somehow thinks that he has the right to appoint himself as the ultimate judge of God (deciding whether he is worth being worship) instead.  This is similar to the sin of Eve that was committed during the Garden of Eden, as Cornelius Van Til describes it,

 

Eve was compelled to assume the equal ultimacy of the minds of God, of the devil, and of herself.  And this surely excluded the exclusive ultimacy of God.  This therefore was a denial of God’s absoluteness epistemologically.  Thus neutrality was based upon negation.  Neutrality is negation[5]

 

As Colossians 1:21 have shown earlier, the mind of the nonbeliever is hostile and an enemy against God.  Yet, it is not only the mind and the nonbeliever’s intellect that is against God: the Word of God also revealed that the will and the desire of the nonbeliever are affected by sin and therefore against God also as well:

 

“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” (John 3:19-20)

 

Understanding the verse above, one should not be surprise when Barker gives the following statement about his will, which affirms what the Scripture predicts:

 

“Well, if I am going to be sent to hell then I would go willingly.”

 

What it boils down to is not intellect or rationality, but Barker’s sin and the nonbeliever’s spiritual rebellion against God.  Nonbelievers such as Barker simply do not want Christ as their Lord and Savior, or God’s presence in Heaven:

 

“I would not want to go up to heaven.”

 

            It is thus important for believers in any apologetics dialogue or evangelism conversation to inform the non-Christian of the nonbeliever’s transgression against God.  The sinner needs to be told of how he is a lawbreaker and deserves the wrath of God.  They are not morally neutral but spiritually and morally in rebellion against God, which leads them to suppress the truth about God.  Unless one surrenders their life to Jesus as Lord and Savior, one’s soul would perish and all their intellectual effort becomes meaningless as well.  Only Jesus is the answer that can save men’s soul and rationality.

 

--Jimmy Li



[1] Van Til, Cornelius.  The Protestant Docrine of Scripture, In Defense of the Fath, vol. 1 (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1967), 4, 37.

[2] Young, Ed.  “An Appeal to an Open-Minded Skeptic”  CRI JOURNAL.  October-December 1998.  Christian Research Institute.

[3] Wait, Erik.  “The Myth of the Open-Minded Skeptic.” Erik Wait personal website.  http://www.erikwait.com/index.cgi?location=2&action=display_one&story_id=183 (accessed August 2, 2007)

[4] Audio for the debate is available for purchase at http://shop.faithdefenders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=389

[5] As quoted from Bahnsen, Greg. Van Til’s Apologetics, ((Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1967), 152.

 Posted 8/2/2007 2:24 PM - 30 views - 10 comments

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Proverbs 1 = growth of a fool that rejects wisdom of God !

Thanks for your continued prayers Jimmy you are always in mine !

Update on prayers for all who suffer from the bridge collapse .

Desiring God

See our video team's footage of the scene yesterday and listen to John Piper talk about why there is suffering in the world.

http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/747_video_from_the_collapsed_bridge/

Putting My Daughter to Bed Two Hours After the Bridge Collapsed

August 1, 2007 | By: John Piper
Category: Written Posts by John Piper, Current Events, Don't Waste Your Life

At about 6 PM tonight the bridge of Interstate 35W over the Mississippi River in Minneapolis collapsed. I am writing this about three hours after the bridge fell. The bridge is located within sight of Bethlehem Baptist Church. Most of us who minister at the church cross this bridge several times a week. At this point I don’t know if any staff was on the bridge. Desiring God offices are about a mile from the bridge.

There are no firm facts at this point about the total number of injuries and fatalities. When we crossed the bridge Tuesday on our way out of town, there was extensive repair work happening on the surface of the bridge with single lane traffic. One speculates about the unusual stresses on the bridge with jackhammers and other surface replacement equipment. This was the fortieth anniversary of the bridge.

Tonight for our family devotions our appointed reading was Luke 13:1-9. It was not my choice. This is surely no coincidence. O that all of the Twin Cities, in shock at this major calamity, would hear what Jesus has to say about it from Luke 13:1-5. People came to Jesus with heart-wrenching news about the slaughter of worshipers by Pilate. Here is what he said.

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Jesus implies that those who brought him this news thought he would say that those who died, deserved to die, and that those who didn’t die did not deserve to die. That is not what he said. He said, everyone deserves to die. And if you and I don’t repent, we too will perish. This is a stunning response. It only makes sense from a view of reality that is radically oriented on God.

All of us have sinned against God, not just against man. This is an outrage ten thousand times worse than the collapse of the 35W bridge. That any human is breathing at this minute on this planet is sheer mercy from God. God makes the sun rise and the rain fall on those who do not treasure him above all else. He causes the heart to beat and the lungs to work for millions of people who deserve his wrath. This is a view of reality that desperately needs to be taught in our churches, so that we are prepared for the calamities of the world.

The meaning of the collapse of this bridge is that John Piper is a sinner and should repent or forfeit his life forever. That means I should turn from the silly preoccupations of my life and focus my mind’s attention and my heart’s affection on God and embrace Jesus Christ as my only hope for the forgiveness of my sins and for the hope of eternal life. That is God’s message in the collapse of this bridge. That is his most merciful message: there is still time to turn from sin and unbelief and destruction for those of us who live. If we could see the eternal calamity from which he is offering escape we would hear this as the most precious message in the world.

We prayed during our family devotions. Talitha (11 years old) and Noel and I prayed earnestly for the families affected by the calamity and for the others in our city. Talitha prayed "Please don’t let anyone blame God for this but give thanks that they were saved." When I sat on her bed and tucked her in and blessed her and sang over her a few minutes ago, I said, "You know, Talitha, that was a good prayer, because when people ‘blame’ God for something, they are angry with him, and they are saying that he has done something wrong. That’s what "blame" means: accuse somebody of wrongdoing. But you and I know that God did not do anything wrong. God always does what is wise. And you and I know that God could have held up that bridge with one hand." Talitha said, "With his pinky." "Yes," I said, "with his pinky. Which means that God had a purpose for not holding up that bridge, knowing all that would happen, and he is infinitely wise in all that he wills."

Talitha said, "Maybe he let it fall because he wanted all the people of Minneapolis to fear him." "Yes, Talitha," I said, "I am sure that is one of the reasons God let the bridge fall."

I sang to her the song I always sing,

Come rest your head and nestle gently
And do not fear the dark of night.
Almighty God keeps watch intently,
And guards your life with all his might.
Doubt not his love, nor power to keep,
He never fails, nor does he sleep.

I said, "You know, Talitha, that is true whether you die in a bridge collapse, or in a car accident, or from cancer, or terrorism, or old age. God always keeps you, even when you die. So you don’t need to be afraid, do you." "No," she shook her head. I leaned down and kissed her. "Good night. I love you."

Tonight across the Twin Cities families are wondering if they will ever kiss a loved one good night again. Some will not. I am praying that they will find Jesus Christ to be their Rock and Refuge in these agonizing hours of uncertainty and even loss.

The word "bridge" does not occur in the Bible. There may be two reasons. One is that God doesn’t build bridges, he divides seas. The other is that usually his people must pass through the deadly currents of suffering and death, not simply ride over them. "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you" (Isaiah 43:2). They may drown you. But I will be with you in life and death.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life . . . will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:35-38)

Killed all day long. But not separated from Christ. We go through the river. Not over it. He went before us, crucified. He came out on the other side. He knows the way through. With him we will make it. That is the message we have for the precious sinners in the Twin Cities. He died for your sins. He rose again. He saves all who trust him. We die, but because of him, we do not die.

Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die." (John 11:25)

Talitha is sleeping now. But one day she will die. I teach her this. I will not always be there to bless her. But Jesus is alive and is the same yesterday today and forever. He will be with her because she trusts him. And she will make it through the river.

Weeping with those who weep, and those who should,

Pastor John

Psalm 71:20 You who have made me see many troubles and calamities will revive me again.

http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/745_putting_my_daughter_to_bed_two_hours_after_the_bridge_collapsed/

God bless you , In his love and hope ,

Barry

Posted 8/2/2007 2:51 PM by Barrygw Xanga True Member Xanga Lifetime Member - reply

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That's very good, Jimmy. People do make the mistake of thinking that non-believers have an open mind that could go either way. The non-believer is right where Satan wants him - without the saving knowledge of Jesus. And Satan will do all in his power to keep it that way. Humans make a mistake when they forget that it is a spiritual battle, not a human battle.
Posted 8/2/2007 3:02 PM by SingingMom Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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Hi! Family is doing fine. My son is very sick today with fever and throwing up. But other then that, we're all good! Thanks for asking!
Posted 8/2/2007 3:30 PM by talleysgrl4ever - reply

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yes! i'll be going into my freshman year in college this fall! i'm going to seattle university.
Posted 8/2/2007 6:00 PM by hannaahh - reply

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I think your post is right, except that it is not the whole story. Non-Christians are in rebellion against God. So are Christians. I don't consider it a black and white difference, so much as a continuum. On the far edges you have a person totally turned away from God, and he would be in hell, and on the other end you have someone turned totally towards God, and he would be in heaven. In between is everyone on this earth, some moving closer to God, others moving further away, and no one quite there yet. What this means is that even the worst non-Christian has something in him that is not yet turned totally away from God and it is to that part that we appeal in apologetics. Call it conscience, natural law, the little reflection of unfallen human nature that we have left, the voice of the Holy Spirit, it still remains a part of us, up until the moment we kill it utterly and end up in hell. It also means that in the best Christian there is some little part that is still dragging its heals and still doesn't want to give up sin, and it is that part of us that we always must be trying to kill or beat into submission.
Posted 8/2/2007 8:48 PM by P_Obrien Xanga True Member - reply

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God is in everything.  I agree.  Just the other day I was told by my mum that her pastor made the claim that 'the Devil took Joe and Danny's life, but God told him ''No they are mine''.'  Danny and Joe were father and son (and personal friends) who died suddenly when out on their 'canoe' a month or so ago.  I was so sad that this person should say that.  Jesus is the only person who is in control of life and death.  Yes, death is un-natural... it wasn't created in the beginning.  It came with the fall.  It is an outworking of sin.  If it is not your time to die, then you may be traumatized, hurt, damaged - but not dead.  But if it IS your time, then no matter what you or any other person does...you will die.  simple.

I have been out of sinc with everything for the last two weeks due to my holidaying as a respite carer with my mum and her foster boys.  I'll phone my uncle (Joesph C Morecraft III - great pastor and very good friend of Bahnsen) and get all the latest info...that's if he isn't away preaching.

thanks for the info.  Prayers are with you.  Personal health inst too great...but strength is granted.

JJ

Posted 8/2/2007 11:54 PM by bugonaleaf Xanga Lifetime Member - reply

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Interesting You are right about the song
Posted 8/3/2007 8:37 AM by RepublicanFish4Christ - reply

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Hes doing much better, thank you! Any news on the Pastor?
Posted 8/4/2007 8:36 AM by talleysgrl4ever - reply

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All this is true, *except*-- I have a visceral reaction to the idea that we all deserve God's wrath. If I, as a Christian, feel that, imagine how useless an evangelistic tool it is. Nobody responds to that. I'm not sure it is the central truth about our spiritual state, anyway. Isn't the central point that we're lost and God has paid dearly to get us un-lost? What is required of us is to trust God. That's really where Eve failed. She didn't trust God to know what was good for her.
Posted 8/4/2007 9:40 AM by MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy Xanga Premium Member - reply

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We are objects of wrath.  It says that in the Bible.  People must know the truth about Christianity like Jimmy has stated above.  There are too many people who claim to be Christians that try to spread a gospel that is not in the Bible.  These false people are exposed by the truth of the Bible.  If people don't know that we will be subject to God's wrath without Christ's death then they will be false converts and when they read the truth in the Bible they will be repulsed.  The truth can not be hidden and so we must shout it out.
Posted 8/8/2007 4:52 AM by mattylockharty - reply


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