The Conversation on Homosexuality Is Finally Here!

Monday, May 05, 2008

The Conversation on Homosexuality Is Finally Here!
I've been talking/blogging/sharing about the Christians on Social Issues "Conversation on Homosexuality" for so long now (since January?) that, at least for me, it's hard to believe that it's going to take place this Saturday! Again, if you're in the area and inclined to go, it's May 10, 7-9:30pm @ EvergreenLA (www.ebcla.org for directions).

I was picking up a few bike-related things at REI's big sale early this afternoon when an attractive AsiAm woman approached me ("I'm a happily married spud, I'm a happily married spud"). "Hi, Ken. I'm _____, Pastor ________'s wife. I just wanted you to know that I've been following your online progress to this Saturday's event and that we've been praying for you daily, ever since we heard you were doing this. This is such an important thing you're doing, something that really needs to take place. We really appreciate how you always manage to bring things to our attention that we'd prefer to overlook or ignore in the Asian American church. Thank you so much for always doing this, and for hosting this Saturday's conversation on homosexuality."

I replied, "Well, I'm doing it because the current "don't ask, don't tell, and don't come" attitude in the majority of evangelical AA churches is causing people whom God loves to suffer in silence or to feel unloved and unwanted. Since this May 10th conversation showed up on people's radars, I've received so many messages from Asian Americans struggling with homosexuality, embracing homosexuality, and their family members and co-workers. The conversation, it seems, has already started, and I think that's fantastic."

"I wish we could attend, but we're committed to a wedding this Saturday," she said. "But my husband and I will keep praying for that evening and we know that some from our church will be there."

"We'll be recording the evening, so you can always snag a CD of the conversation and, as you know, we're making a short film about this event that you can see later."

_________________________________________

Please keep myself, Marian Sunabe, and Gary Hayashi in your prayers, as well as M/M Harold Kamiya, who will be sharing in the second half about their daughter's coming out as a lesbian and how that's affected their relationships (with her, the former church, with LGBT community). Prayer that we would be able, with God's grace, to model how to have a civil conversation even as we don't share each other's convictions. Pray that we are able to agree on even just one ultimate conviction before the evening's over.

I will be facilitating an adult CLASS called "We STILL Need to Talk" starting May 11 and running for 5 weeks. More time to interact, to hear real stories, and to meet folks in the thick of this issue.

Peace,
pken.

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Comments (7)

I'm really interested in hearing how everything goes PKen please keep us updated. Praying for you and the event.
- 5/5/2008 8:30 PM
- eugy (message)
- reply
crap, missed the rei sale...
- 5/5/2008 10:43 PM
- typhoon5ht (message)
- reply
@typhoon5ht - Hey, the sale is thru this Sunday, I believe. If you're a member, you should have rec'd a 20% off coupon. Or are you just being silly?
- 5/5/2008 11:22 PM
- sedaqah (message)
- reply
heh, a little of each. I'm not a member but I have a 25 dollar gift card. I can probably get a water bottle...
how many times have you seen toy story 2? heh
- 5/5/2008 11:34 PM
- typhoon5ht (message)
- reply
p.ken, looking forward to hearing how the conversation goes. i've put up a plug on the nextgenerasianchurch blog. please keep me posted or feel free to post something yourself. i can add you on as an author if you'd like. joy and peace to you.
- 5/6/2008 7:01 AM
- jazzbank (message)
- reply
1,000 eProps!

PKen, Thank you so much for hosting this well done event - here's some of my follow-up thoughts... [Feel free to delete it if you don't think it's edifying]

This is the second one for me.
The first time I attended a secular event organized right here on the
college where I work, where I heard the perspective from a homosexual person:
“I did not choose this. I grew up
struggling with this.” (Now to be fair,
a few others in the GLBT community would rather see their sexual orientation as
a choice – but that seems to be the position which many GLBT Christians did not
side with).
I was extremely impressed at how Evergreen presented this, especially
to Gary Hayashi for his integrity in presenting the Gay Christian’s perspective
through his own painful journey. Marian
Sunabe, his straight but sympathetic friend, present well her thoughts on how your position (and probably a position I would identify myself with) is “welcoming
but not affirming enough” for a GLBT person.
Both Gary and Marian are well educated in psychology, especially marital
therapy. Gary had his own Master of Divinity and 7
years of ministry experience in Dessert Stream (a recovering ministry for
Ex-Gay) before he coming out to boost.
Afterward, there was a short Q&A session. Unfortunately none of the Q&A dug deeper
into the Scriptural issues and so I feel a bit disappointed. (But perhaps that should not be a major
concern for the other attendees there, since the relevancy should be the actual
“So what?” implication to people’s life).
But for me, since I tend to dwell on this issue rather deeper (I have
many liberal friends, and even read some pro-homosexual biblical interpretation
on this), I feel like some of the presupposition I had wasn’t been
touched. (And of course, they should
not, could not be addressed in the first conversation).
I am willing to skip the entanglement of “Born vs. Choice” at this
point for now. But assume that people
were born with this sexual orientation, how would the rest of the spiritual
aspect according to Christianity work out?
1) It seems like in order to support a more GLBT-friendly position; we
will have to shift away from Scripture as authoritative. So far I have read several attempts of
reinterpretation of Scripture in support of GLBT and have not completely
satisfied with the answers given. Some
were just outright silly (Jesus and the Twelve were gay, David and Jonathan
were gay, Naomi and Ruth were lesbians, etc.)
But most pinned the issue on culture (Leviticus was only applicable to
their culture; Paul was having his own biases, etc.) I would love to hear from Gary about how he works this tension
out. From what Jenney heard, it seems
like Gary
finally settled to be a “non-practicing homosexual Christian” as a way to
resolve the tension.
2) Gary
said that he found when Christians say “Love the sinner and not the sin” to
their GLBT friends, it is utterly offensive.
I would agree with Gary
that sometimes Christians say that as a way to proving their theology without
any regard to the emotional pain of their gay friends. But I also want to point out that it is
possible (and practical) to “love the sinner and not the sin”. I have visit the prisons too many times and
interacted with quite a few Christians family to know that many family members
could love their inmates unconditionally but still distinguishing the sin their
loved-ones have committed. I think the
offending issue lies in the fact that homosexuality was equated with sin. That’s seem not fair, because “this is not my
choice, I was born this way”.
To this, I think the Gospel theology I learned from Tim Keller is
applicable here. The problem in this
tension happened because we are still thinking in term of sin as immorally bad
behaviors. Seeing sin in that light and
we have to admit that many gays are way more morally righteous compare to
church people (they involved in social justice, they feed the poor, campaign
for the oppressed, love others, even commit to a non-promiscuous monogamous
spousal relationship).
But sin is not moral behaviors (I am just coming out from 13-weeks
intensive study on the Gospel according to Paul to the Galatians and so I am
not going to dwell more on the subject).
Sin is anything, even good things that replace God as the ultimate in
our life. We are all sinners. And to the degrees that I realize how deprave
I am before God (in my heart, not just my behaviors), that would be the degree
that I could walk into prison and “love the sinners and not the sin” because I
know deep down that I could be capable of the same sin they commit – given the
right circumstances, the right price.
I also wonder about Gary, as well as many of us: May be we were
knee-depth in dealing with our issues and that became our
idol-of-the-heart. Could it be Gary’s drive (going
through seminary, serving in ministry, etc.) was a way to resolve his sexual
identity issue, and making the issue the number one thing in his life? Could it be that the one-thing that he must
have was figuring out his sexual identity, and not just Christ? It seems like he comes to much freedom after
he accepts who he was and no longer trying to justify himself by correcting his
sexual issue but instead resting in the love that God had for him? (Now for you and me, our consuming issue may not be sexual orientation, but how about the our fulfillment, our ministry, and even family)
I know I am talking like a theoretical fool, but I could not help theologizing the Gospel on this.
3) This last point will be short.
Can God also be “welcoming but not affirming”? Perhaps the Armenians is right about the
Calvinists God is “devilish”! May be our
theological presupposition have a lot to do with how we act in this matter.
There is still much stuff to sort out.
- 5/12/2008 2:52 PM
- I12Know (message)
- reply
@I12Know - thanks for your extensive response. I'm still wrestling with what the impact on theology and doctrine will be IF, say, unbiased scientific research proves that for some (not all) homosexuals, there is either a "gay" gene or that something happened hormonally in utero either to feminize or masculinize the embryo. In our follow up adult SS class that kicked off on May 11th, we'll be viewing a 60 Minutes program that focuses on twin studies and hormones. Currently, I think I could still make the theological argument that even if one or both those things are proven, they're all still the consequence of our broken sexuality post-Fall. However, if it is established clearly that, for some (not all) this clearly wasn't a choice and thus can't be un-chosen, I would hope that the Church could muster up more understanding and mercy even as the Church still upholds God's standards for all singles.
I like Keller's definition of sin that goes way beyond bad behaviors. It sort of reminds me of how so many people believe it's their inalienable right to be happy and that any barriers to achieving this are inherently wrong. As followers of Christ, I believe that He has called us to something higher than happiness, something far more fulfilling yet often quite painful and costly. This is a tough sell to STRAIGHT Christians, let along gay ones!
Thanks for understanding that we couldn't accomplish EVERYTHING in one, long evening, but we DID accomplish something needed and unprecedented. It's a start.
I forget your real name. Please refresh my memory...
peace,
pken.
- 5/12/2008 10:02 PM
- sedaqah (message)
- reply